OK here's a question

[caveman35 (deleted)]

winnigats wrote: ` I feel that Wiccans are not remembering that exact basic principle of what our ancient religion is based off of ". . . An' ye harm none, do what ye will." EIGHT WORDS!
I am not trying to be oh so very religious and peddle this down any throats, but merely advise. It is not man's place to judge in actions we do not comprehend. Pagans have survived from the beginning of time and without a doubt in my mind will forever survive. Weather Wiccans came first or not really does not seem the most pressive, or at least to me it doesn't.
Alright, I done, I have but my two cents in. X3



Actually - those eight words were adopted by Gardner, taken from 'Les aventures du roi Pausole (The adventures of King Pausole) by Pierre Louys, who made Pausole's justice system as saying, 'Thou shalt not harm thy neighbor, This being understood, do as thou woudst.'

I must admit though, this is becoming tiresome... Following is a link, those people who are serious and want to study the modern religion of Wicca in truth, as it is then I definitely recommend the read - If not, have fun playing Harry Potter.

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[caveman35 (deleted)]

mountainwizard wrote: Merry Meet folks. To the gent who started this thread, you seem awfully absolute and certain about what didn't happen anywhere in Europe while you were not actually there and watching, and even if you had been there to watch, would you have recognized what you saw?
When the practicers of a religion are systematically exterminated, traces and texts and vague stories are what you get, which might protect a thriving underground community at some times and a few wack jobs hanging on to practices they don't understand at others.
I also am not necessarily convinced as scholarly fact that any unbroken line of initiates stretches back more than a few hundred years. But I'm encouraged for example by the text Aradia the Gospel of the Witches which came from Italy in the 1700s, and is available as etext online. I find it useful to have a category I call 'lore' which amounts to stories beliefs and practices authentically important to some people but not necessarily 'true' in an academic sense. Its good to know the lore, and it is useful and informs our lives, but that doesn't make it literally 'true.'
But in another way, the Shaman or Witch of a neolithic tribe used every trick every story every technique s/he could dream up or learn about to do what needed done by hook or crook. They were bold experimenters by necessity, with no time to worry about pure lineage or anything else but what worked, and then teaching what worked. That tradition is unbroken.



Well first, the Gospel of Witches is 1800s, not 1700s, sorry, I'm just a nit picker. I understand that Leland claimed to have received the Gospels from an actual Stregha (Witch) but that seems incredibly unlikely given the secretive nature of Family traditional Witchcraft in Italy.

Whether it is or isn't authentic however is open for debate, either way though I know I for one also enjoyed the work.

As for what I'm certain of, I am certain of the studies of archaeology, anthropology, the manuscripts, as well as comparative religion. There simply is no evidence what so ever that would suggest any sort of Duality worship anywhere in the world prior to the 1950s.

Hinduism is actually regarded by scholar's as being the world's oldest surviving religion with Judaism pf course being a close second, and I quote,

Quote: Hinduism is generally regarded as the world's oldest organized religion. It consists of "thousands of different religious groups that have evolved in India since 1500 BCE."

David Levinson, "Religion: A cross-cultural dictionary," Oxford University Press, (1998)

Now Zoroastrianism had the right idea, but just didn't get there in the scheme of things.